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Why do bad things happen to good people? (Part 2)

Posted on September 8, 2015 by prayerwalk Posted in Authors, Roger Forster, Suffering and the Love of God
The sufferings of Job
The sufferings of Job

In part 1, we looked at the story of Job and saw that his suffering as a righteous man was not caused by God, but rather by Satan, with God’s means of love on trial as the best way of running the universe.

But how did the story end?

Theological suffering

After loosing his health, children, possessions and property, Job has to endure the wisdom of his theologian friends, who insist that bad things only happen to bad people, so therefore Job must have some sin in his life.

Despite the Lord boasting in his servant (“Have you considered my servant Job?” – Job 1:18), his friends claim that:

He puts no trust even in His servants;

And against His angels He charges error. (Job 4:18)

Even though Job is described as “blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil” (Job 1:1), his friends assert:

“How then can a man be just with God?

Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?” (Job 25:4)

We are told in the narrative that Satan caused Job’s ruin, that the innocent do suffer “without cause” (Job 2:3), but his friends still protest:

“If you are pure and upright,

Surely now He would rouse Himself for you

And restore your righteous estate” (Job 8:6)

Unbeknown that Job’s sufferings were directly caused by Satan (Job 2:7), his friends insist:

“For [God] inflicts pain, and gives relief;

He wounds, and His hands also heal” (Job 5:18)

Job knew his God, both his character and his ways of working in the world, which is why the suffering caused him particular pain: is the Lord not not who I thought he was?  He wrestled with God, know that the Lord is good but not understanding the suffering he was experiencing.

Running the created universe

Job didn’t remain in a place of suffering for the rest of his life however.  Towards the end of the book, the Lord answers him out of a storm.

The Lord’s answer, which is actually just lots of questions directed at Job, can seem rather puzzling.  For several chapters, the Lord quizzes Job about the running of the universe.

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding,

Who set its measurements? Since you know.

Or who stretched the line on it?

On what were its bases sunk?

Or who laid its cornerstone,

When the morning stars sang together

And all the sons of God shouted for joy”  (Job 38:4-7)

He asks Job about the process of creation, the weather systems, controlling the oceans, the stars, about feeding all the animals, and about how all the different creatures in the world live and reproduce.  Job doesn’t have much of an answer.

What the Lord is doing is opening Job’s eyes to see the huge complexity of the created world: Job, have you tried running the universe lately?  In keeping everything going, there is so much to weight up, consider and keep in order.  It is easy to look at the pain or difficulty in our own lives and think that we could do a better job of ruling the cosmos.  Lovingly, the Lord is helping Job understand the sheer enormity of the task.

Trying to answer the ‘why’ question of suffering then becomes basically meaningless: the lines of cause and effect run far and deep.

Battling the powers

The Lord then turns to talk about the mysterious creatures Behemoth and Leviathan.

“Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?

Or press down his tongue with a cord?

Can you put a rope in his nose

Or pierce his jaw with a hook?

Will he make many supplications to you,

Or will he speak to you soft words?

Will he make a covenant with you?

Will you take him for a servant forever?” (Job 41:1-4)

Some think he might be referring to a crocodile, or maybe some kind of dinosaur, but it is more likely that it is referring to spiritual powers.  Satan appears as a snake in the garden of Eden, but is called a dragon in the book of Revelation.

The spiritual powers that the Lord has created are wild and difficult to tame.  The Lord has a formidable foe (Satan), and bringing him into order, whilst not impossible, is not easy.

Fortunes restored

Having met with the Lord, Job has heard more questions than perhaps he has had answered.

“Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand,

Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know” (Job 42:3)

The Lord isn’t too happy with the unhelpful words of Job’s theologian friends, but Job prays for them and then his fortunes are completely restored – twofold!

It was as Job kept trusting that God is still good in the face of inexplicable suffering, that a victory over the enemy was won.  Job’s faithful love towards the Lord meant that Satan’s original charge (that people only love God for the blessings) was refuted.

Seeing Jesus

What is interesting is the parallels with the life of Jesus.

Jesus was the perfect man who lived a righteous life but yet still suffered.  With Job, Satan would have had some ground through sin if he did take Job’s life.  But with not with Jesus.  In taking Jesus’ life on the cross, Satan overstepped the mark, taking a life that he had no right nor authority to take.  The Lord can now justifiably and rightfully destroy Satan, which will happen when Jesus returns.  The wild monster of the deep has indeed been caught!

For a full study on the book of Job and these ideas, read ‘Suffering and the Love of God” by Roger Forster.

Job Problem of suffering theodicy

Why do bad things happen to good people? Pt.1

Posted on June 8, 2015 by prayerwalk Posted in Authors, Roger Forster, Suffering and the Love of God

God has set up a universe where we have freewill to choose between good and evil.

Our actions have consequences – if we choose to do bad things, like lying, stealing or worse, we can expect bad consequences, like fractured relationships, prison, or even worse. On the other hand if God is good and there is justice in this life, then if we are honest, faithful and good, things should generally turn out better.

The problem comes when good people suffer terrible catastrophes: the godly couple who have prayed for years for a baby, only for the baby to die in childbirth; the missionaries whose plane fatally crashes into a mountain on the way back to the mission field; the faithful evangelist who loses his eyesight in a gang attack whilst sharing the gospel.  Why do bad things happen to good people?

Theodicy – the problem of suffering
Theodicy – the problem of suffering

This is often called ‘the problem of suffering’ and theologians have wrestled with finding a solution to it.  If God is meant to be all-powerful (in that he can do anything he likes) and and all-loving (in that he works for the good of others), why doesn’t he stop this sort of suffering?  Either he is all-powerful and could stop the suffering but doesn’t (and so isn’t all-loving), or else he is all-loving and wants to stop the suffering but can’t (and so isn’t all-powerful).  How can we resolve this?

The book of Job

The book of Job gives us a fascinating insight into this problem.

There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil. (Job 1:1)

Job is a good person, and the Lord prospers him with a large family, lots of livestock, servants and a good reputation.

Job was blessed by the Lord!
Job was blessed by the Lord!

But as the story begins, we glimpse behind the scenes into the spiritual realm, where the ‘sons of God’ (angelic beings) are gathered for a heavenly council meeting with the Lord.  Satan turns up, and God, who is really proud of his servant Job, can’t help pointing him out to Satan.

The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.” (Job 1:8)

Satan immediately levels an accusation against God: Job only loves You because of all the good things you lavish upon him and the protection you give him; take these away and he’ll soon curse You.

God runs the universe by loving it along, and wants people in it who will love him in return and enter a relationship with him.  But Satan doesn’t think much of this: he doesn’t think that love really exists.  Rather, sheer power is all there is and people only serve God because of the benefits they receive.  If there was no reward for serving the Lord, people would soon give up.

Now, the issue is that Satan’s point was valid: did Job really love God for who he was, or just for the benefits he got from him?  So what could God do about it?

Well, the Lord could just tell Satan to shut up and then zap him out of existence.  But the problem with that is that the Lord would cease to be good: he would just be acting like any other petty tyrant, rather than the just and good king of the universe.

So Satan’s accusation stands.  How can it be answered?

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:12)

The only way to demonstrate that running the universe by self-giving love is better than self-serving  power is through suffering.  Will Job keep on choosing to love the Lord even if he only receives pain in return?  Is love still worth it even if just brings heartache?

Job’s Disasters

Job then starts to receive terrible messages about his family: marauding gangs have killed your servants, a firestorm has destroyed all your cattle and a whirlwind has killed all your children.

Job’s response is one of worship (Job 1:20), still choosing to love the Lord.

Job loses everything he has...
Job loses everything he has…

Satan then turns up again to the heavenly council.  The Lord is vindicated by Job’s actions and so boasts in him again.

The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause. (Job 2:3)

Job loses his health too...
Job loses his health too…

Satan may have incited the Lord against Job, but it’s clear that Satan has caused the catastrophes: stirring up violent men and triggering ‘natural’ disasters.  But Job is still standing with the Lord.

Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. However, put forth Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh; he will curse You to Your face.” (Job 2:4-5)

Again, Satan’s accusation stands, and so the Lord just states that Job is in Satan’s power, but his life must be spared.  Satan then goes out and smites Job with terrible boils.

How does this answer the problem of suffering?

Answers to the problem of suffering
Answers to the problem of suffering

Firstly, it shows us a behind-the-scenes view of how the universe works, that there are all sorts of unseen spiritual powers at work that have reactions and effects in the natural world.  Suffering comes from Satan and there are many demonic powers out there who take delight in sending disaster and evil.

Secondly, it reveals that God isn’t running the universe by brute force or absolute diktat, but rather invites free-willed agents to help rule and reign with him, both angelic and human.  Out of love he has given out this power and freedom, and can’t just take it back as soon as decisions happen that he doesn’t like.

Thirdly, Satan’s accusation that love isn’t genuine still stands over every believer.  Do people just follow the Lord just because of the blessings, or do they really love him?  The only way for this to be demonstrated is through suffering, choosing to still love God even if we only receive pain because of it.

For a full study on the book of Job and these ideas, read ‘Suffering and the Love of God” by Roger Forster.

Job Problem of suffering theodicy

Interview: Roger Forster on ‘God’s Strategy in Human History’

Posted on April 28, 2015 by prayerwalk Posted in Authors, Books, Roger Forster
GSiHH
All the editions of God’s Strategy in Human History…

God’s Strategy in Human History by Roger T Forster and Paul Marston was first published in 1973. and a revised and expanded third edition was released in 2013.  I recently was able to ask Roger a few questions about the book.

Could you briefly summarise what God’s purpose and plan is throughout the history of humanity?

Firstly, to defeat and rout out evil from the universe.  Secondly, to conform to the image of Christ as many people as will let God do it to them.  Thirdly, to bring in a new heaven and a new earth.

Why did you and Paul Marston originally write God’s Strategy in Human History?

I found myself continuously teaching, correcting and instructing concerning God’s character, which in popular evangelical circles was presenting God as ordaining everything that happens. I felt this caricature of God unacceptable and unbiblical. So I wrote concerning the truths of predestination, meaning God’s purpose or destiny for man is Christ likeness which we can reject.  Election is the office of servanthood that God has appointed for the church (compare Jesus the elect suffering servant of God). Election is nothing to do with going to heaven or hell: it is to do with washing feet.

What have been the main changes to the new edition?

The basic concepts of Augustinian Calvinism and the answers to these assertions in our exegesis has remained virtually unchanged, but we have added other sections, mainly ones on the intermediate state after death before the resurrection and tackled the thorny issue of eternal conscious torment. Most of the intricate and sometimes heavy scholarship lying behind our arguments are separated into the second volume which many people may find unnecessary to engage with. Although for ourselves it is very important.  A third addition are the key concepts and definitions where many of the ideas are listed conveniently together at the end of volume one.

To what extent do you think the ideas/concepts from the 1973 book have impacted the theology of the ‘average’ Christian over the years?

I find this one almost impossible to answer. Of course we get many eulogies of people who have been delivered from wrong views of God after reading our book. I think there are more student minds today willing to see there is an alternative to Augustinian Calvinism, perhaps more than there were. However, to comment on the average Christian is extremely difficult: popular ideas will always continue however carefully they might be refuted.

What topics from God’s Strategy in Human History do you consider are the most vital for people to grasp today?

Firstly, that God is not ordaining everything and controlling everything that happens. Although He is the first cause in creation of everything, including the Devil, He does not ordain everything that the devil does or that mankind should sin.

Secondly, that God is love and has given us free will which is necessary for us to love.

Thirdly, that God is to be preached as like Jesus and not like a despotic tyrannical torturer of human beings.

Has the Calvinist vs Arminian debate changed since God’s Strategy in Human History was first written?

This again is a difficult one to answer, in some parts of the world the issue is hardly ever considered. In Europe, Calvinism is still the dominant view, but the debates seem to be less frequent since large numbers of Christians are very shallow in their grasp of scripture and don’t therefore have the ability to engage in depth with the subjects. Biblical interest in the church is less than it was, however, one finds the occasional person like the gentleman who was a Calvinist and did a PhD on my theology. After he had gained his PhD he came to tell me that he had changed his position to Arminianism. Perhaps there are some other people like him around.

God’s Strategy in Human History is published by Push Publishing and available in two volumes.

calvinism election god's strategy god's strategy in human history kingdom of god paul marston predestination Roger Forster

A Christmas Poem

Posted on December 2, 2014 by prayerwalk Posted in Faith Forster, Holy Oil, Poetry
Christmas Tree Illustration by Walter Hayn

'Holy Oil' - by Faith ForsterChristmas is a great time to get creative in your church services, and whether you are holding a candle-lit carol service or an all-age extravaganza, poems are a wonderful way of engaging with the beauty and wonder of Jesus’ birth. Poems cross many divides and reach out to mind, soul and spirit in ways that words alone often do not. So why not try something different and read a poem out loud.

If you are not sure where to start, here is a Christmas poem written specifically for performance in Church services. It is written by Faith Forster, and taken from her poetry book ‘Holy Oil’, which also features exquisite illustrations by Walter Hayn. You are free to print off this poem and use it in your services, all we ask is that you do give the author credit. If you are interested in more Christmas poems, or even poems for other church occasions, then please consider getting hold of a copy of ‘Holy Oil’ from our shop, from Amazon, or from any good bookshop.

———————–

The Tree

Christmas Tree Illustration by Walter Hayn
‘The Tree’ by Walter Hayn

by Faith Forster

The room lay still and silent, only
the sweet high tinkling music of
innumerable fragile spheres
rang out their joyful message
from the tree …
which winked and glowed in radiancy
its branches heavy with the weight of light
and deeper gift-wrapped burdens in its heart …

And one small child
crept softly into the darkened room
to stand apart
and gaze in silence at the sight,
speechless in awe and wonder at this alien tree
that fruited light and splendid mystery …

As long ago
another child
first opened wide His eyes in gloom
and saw a light no other eyes could see,
He also was transfixed in heart
long long before His body knew
that rooting to the ground …

The Word was silent then
as down the years
the distant hidden music reached
His infant ears,
and by the shining of His natal star
in that dim corner of the world’s own night
He saw a tree all radiant with light,
its dark, moist branches glistening from afar,
and He Himself the red-wrapped gift
that hung there heavily …

Yet on that still and holy night
when first He looked upon the sight
He did not turn his face away
from his own Christmas tree,
that waited
for His gift to you and me …

 

Christmas Christmas Poem Faith Forster Holy Oil Poetry

Is Christendom Dying?

Posted on November 23, 2014 by Ben Trigg Posted in Books

Death_of_ChristendomWhat is Christendom? Christendom is seen by many as the ‘church triumphant and militaristic’, the church that is allied with the state and will use earthly powers, even the power of the sword (history has shown), to bend society to its will. It is often seen as having begun with the ‘conversion’ of the Roman emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD. The mindset it creates tends to lament the time when Christians lose control over civil and governmental powers.

Is it dying? For a long time now, on various parts of the theological spectrum, an answer has begun to resound: ‘Yes. And that’s no bad thing.’ For example, Stanley Hauerwas and William Willimon wrote about its death, and how releasing it is for the true church, in their little book Resident Aliens: Life In The Christian Colony.

But they weren’t the first to notice the final throes of Christendom in the West. Greg Boyd in his foreword to the third edition of God’s Strategy in Human History champions this book (by Roger Forster and Paul Marston) for its influence early in his life as a theologian and pastor, and hopes that the seeds it sowed in its first and second editions will now be reaped by the third.

He reckons its timing is perfect. ‘The religion of Christendom with its vision of the “church triumphant” is on its way out!’ People are starting to wake up to the fact that Jesus is not a conquering Caesar but a humble, crucified Saviour, says Boyd.

A Kingdom Revolution

Gods Strategy in Human History Volumes 1&2
God’s Strategy in Human History (3rd edn) – Volumes 1&2

God’s Strategy was first published in 1973. Before the New Perspective on Paul was making waves, or Open Theologians such as Clark Pinnock, Greg Boyd or Richard Rice were reflecting on God’s relationship with the future, Roger Forster and Paul Marston were striding ahead with their bold challenges to the traditional views on concepts such as predestination, foreknowledge, free will and more.

In this new third edition they have been able to interact with some of the more recent, welcome developments in Pauline and New Testament studies, including the New Perspective on Paul. They have highlighted where their points are now being reinforced, and noted where they would still differ and offer further challenges. Ever careful in their approach, they also issue the occasional note of caution in regard to Open Theology, preferring a ‘middle way’ between Arminianism and Openness, known as ‘Relational Theology’.

As Greg Boyd states in his introduction, their work speaks right to the core of the ‘kingdom revolution’ that is taking place. People are rediscovering the true nature of Jesus’ kingdom, that it is ‘not of this world’. Thus also the picture of God that went with Christendom – an all-determining, fatalistic moral monster – is fading into

nothingness as people discover what he’s really like. Forster and Marston’s work helps us to do this, and in so doing offers a new manifesto for being ‘in the world, not of it’, offering a view of God that is better than anyone could possibly imagine, seeing off the worldly mindset of Christendom, and encouraging a fresh devotion to the way of Christ’s heavenly kingdom.

book calvinism christendom god's strategy god's strategy in human history greg boyd kingdom of god kingdom revolution paul marston reformation reformed theology Roger Forster theology theology book

The Kingdom of Jesus – Birds

Posted on October 11, 2014 by prayerwalk Posted in Roger Forster, The Kingdom of Jesus
The Kingdom of Jesus Birds

The Challenge

Following the release of the 2nd edition of ‘The Kingdom of Jesus‘ by Roger Forster in August 2014, we ran a competition on Twitter to see who could identify the most birds on the front cover.

 

The Results

In 3rd place was @torygordon, in 2nd place was @lovellytim but the winner was Ian Hutchinson, who correctly identified 30.5 of the 39 birds in the tree.

Here is a list of the birds, numbered for your reference and convenience!

The Kingdom of Jesus Birds
The birds on the cover of ‘The Kingdom of Jesus’ by Roger Forster
  1. Roseate Spoonbill
  2. Scarlet Macaw
  3. Frilled coquette
  4. Cockatiel
  5. Lesser Bird of Paradise
  6. Emperor Vulture
  7. Rufous-necked Hornbill
  8. American Kestrel
  9. Baltimore Oriole
  10. Northern Cardinal
  11. Gurney’s Pitta
  12. Violet-backed starling
  13. Wren
  14. Blue-breasted Kingfisher
  15. European Sparrow
  16. Toco Toucan
  17. Violet Sabrewing
  18. Nuthatch
  19. Puffin
  20. Yellow-collared lovebird
  21. Rainbow Lorikeet
  22. European Starling
  23. Peacock
  24. Laughing Kookaburra
  25. Greater-spotted Woodpecker
  26. Barn Owl
  27. Oriental Dwarf Kingfisher

    'The Kingdom of Jesus' by Roger Forster
    Click to learn more about ‘The Kingdom of Jesus’ by Roger Forster
  28. Mandarin Duck
  29. Sulphur-crested Cockatoo
  30. Lesser-spotted Flycatcher
  31. Brown Pelican
  32. Indigo Bunting
  33. Cock-of-the-Rock (Guianan)
  34. Japanese Paradise Flycatcher
  35. European Bee-eater
  36. Blue Jay
  37. Oystercatcher
  38. Green Honeycreeper (female)
  39. Hoopoe
Birds Jesus Roger Forster The Kingdom of Jesus

Interview: Faith Forster on ‘Women and the Kingdom’

Posted on September 30, 2014 by prayerwalk Posted in Faith Forster, Women and the Kingdom, Women in ministry
Women and the Kingdom

Faith ForsterWomen and the Kingdom is the recent book by Faith and Roger Forster. Jackie Pullinger described it as a ‘treatise on women and the Kingdom which reads like a thriller.’ We spoke to Faith to find out more about the book.  Continue reading →

Church history Faith Forster female bishops leadership ministry Roger Forster women Women and the Kingdom

Recent blog posts

  • Interview: Paul Marston – Why did you write “God’s Strategy in Human History”? October 17, 2015
  • Why do bad things happen to good people? (Part 2) September 8, 2015
  • Why do bad things happen to good people? Pt.1 June 8, 2015
  • God’s Foreknowledge – How much does God know about the future? May 8, 2015
  • Interview: Roger Forster on ‘God’s Strategy in Human History’ April 28, 2015
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